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Exclusive Update: Zimbabwe Authorities Refute Allegations of Trumps’ Illegal Hunt

by Dylan Polk   |  March 28th, 2012 181
Donald Trump Jr

Donald Trump Jr. sits next to a cape buffalo he shot during a 2010 hunt in Zimbabwe.

On Monday, we reported on the criticism facing Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump after photos of the brothers’ 2010 hunt circulated around the web.

In the story, we cited a report from The Associated Press, which reported that Zimbabwe officials were investigating supposed wrongdoings in the hunt, which ranged from using dogs to hunt leopards (legal sometimes, illegal others) to mishandling of paperwork and distribution of game meat to local villages.

It seems, however, that those reports were false, and that comes straight from the Zimbabwe government.

On Tuesday, Donald Trump Jr. emailed Petersen’s Hunting online editor Ben O’Brien with an attached letter from the director-general of the Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority, Vitallis Chadenga. In the letter, Chadenga chastises various anti-hunting groups for their efforts to smear the Trumps, and calls into question the validity of claims that the hunt was fenced or canned hunt. The letter reads as follows:

Zimbabwe letter

Click to enlarge.

As Director General of The Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority I would like to officially respond to the baseless allegations that Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump hunted illegally during their visit to Zimbabwe. First and foremost, there is no “Official Investigation” into the Trump’s activities here as from day one all the requisite documentation was properly handled and the appropriate licenses were obtained which resulted in the issuance of the export paperwork. The only investigation which should occur is that of the “anti-hunting” organizations who are peddling untruths falsely represented as facts.

The Trumps booked a hunt through a South African firm that worked with a locally owned and registered outfitter who handled all the required hunting permits and hired the registered Zimbabwe Professional Hunters. In addition, as required by law, the Trump hunt took place under the supervision of Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority Game Rangers who accompany hunters daily making sure that all rules and regulations are followed. The Trump’s hunt was no different from that of thousands of other hunters who come to Zimbabwe annually from around the world to pursue game.

Any allegations to the contrary, are simply false and being perpetrated by anti-hunting groups looking to create a salacious story to further their cause at the expense of the hunting industry.

Matetsi Unit 1 where the hunt in question took place is in excess of 40,000 hectares, thus approximately 100,000 acres of unfenced and open wilderness with the rest of the Matetsi Controlled Hunting Area, so the notion that this was a canned or behind a fence hunt is also absurd. The Matetsi complex is a highly regulated area where strict quotas for game are made every year so as to maintain optimal conditions for all game to survive and thrive.

Hunting, and the fees derived thereof, are a vital part of our conservation efforts to preserve the natural beauty of Zimbabwe’s wilderness as well as a vital part of our nation’s economy. The fees are used to maintain local Fauna and Flora, fund anti-poaching campaigns, and pay the salaries of park rangers who manage the area. Fees from hunters make up a very significant portion of our budgets and without these fees many of these areas would not be able to maintain their natural state.

We are seriously concerned by the actions intended to destroy the reputation of the hunters and outfitters who lawfully come to Zimbabwe and abide by our game laws and regulations. We expect that this issue and the false accusations against the Trumps are laid to rest and we sincerely hope to welcome them back to enjoy Zimbabwe’s natural heritage in the near future.

Regards,
V. Chadenga
Director-General

Keep checking Petersen’s Hunting for more updates on this story as they come in.

  • Des

    It's good to see the Dept of parks and wildlife defending hunting. Not that it's going to change any minds among the anti-hunting groups, but their willingness to call out false claims is heartening.

    • Ray.

      He has to say that, because he is getting paid to say that. It is all about greed

      • Ben Petrone

        Hey Ray are you greedy because you work a job to support your family or are you sitting on your fat assspilling anti hunting crap oooooooooor are you one of obamas leeches sucking money off of welfare :) LOL

        • Ray

          You can mock me as much as you like. It has no effect. I have had many `discussioins` with hunters. You are all the same. I see the same inane grin of satisfaction when you have killed a defenceles animal. All the stupid `kill` pictures are all the same.You enjoy killing. You enjoy seeing an animal have it`s life taken away, and for what? To show your pals how brave and strong you are. Well, you are all weak, that`s why you have to kill animals. You have to prove yourself, and the easiest way is to kill something weaker than yourself. Oh, and by the way. I am British, not American. Something else you got wrong eh?

          • sebi

            So am I mate doesnt give me the right to write anti-hunting bolocks just because I think im "doing the right thing"

          • Ray

            It`s a free world. We can say what we like. And i don`t like hunters.

      • Chi

        it's a proven fact that regulated hunting has not only generated revenue for the areas re-opened hunting but has also been sucessful in creating a healther and increasing animal population. do your homework and look it up yourself!

        • Ray

          What`s the point of having a healthier and increased animal population if you are going to kill them. Don`t try and fob me off with that tame excuse.

          • Taro

            Ray! Are you still here?! I come back from a week long turkey hunting trip and I see that you left me a “message”. Wow comments like that just show how uneducated you are, you must live in a city, London? You ever finish high school? I don’t think so cause if you did you would have had a basic knowledge of biology. I won’t try to explain in detail because I know its way above your educational level. But to put it simply:
            Healthy animal populations = good!
            Uneducated, hypocritical, leather wearing, self-righteous vegans = bad!

          • Ray

            Errr, Taro. Vegans do not wear leather. Get things right. Were the Turkeys annoying you? So you had to kill something a bit less intelligent than yourself. Dumbo.

          • Taro

            Ray-True vegan don’t wear leather. You don’t strike me as a true vegan, more of a vegan when its convenient for you. I bet you consume some daily products, maybe even fish! How about a little honey with your tea? And wool, I bet you wear wool! Who could blame you, you’re from England! Heck you guys are pretty much born with a wool diaper! That could explain your temperament! No you’re definitely not a TRUE vegan, just a want-to-be.

    • Ray

      Of course the Zimbabwean Government are completely reliable. They are so reliable, they kill all oppostion to their regime. If you believe this rubbish, you will believe there are horses on Mars.

  • http://huntingholumstyle.wordpress.com Holum

    This is refreshing in many ways! Glad to see someone in charge that understands how conservation and hunting go hand in hand.

    • Ray

      The word ` Conservation` is a joke when it comes to killing a defenceless animal. I suppose if we want to preserve the human race, we had better start killing a few billion. Oh no, can`t do that, that`s murder.

      • sebi

        Hunters are actually helping the animal kindom with their "conservation" if you relly looked in to it.

        • Ray

          If you really look at it, then you would know it is wrong. Would you kill your own pet dog because there are too many strays around? no, you wouldn`t. But someone has decided that there are too many animals around so everybody might as well line their pockets with wonga and slate their bloodlust.

          • Merrill

            No, but I would definately kill the strays………… dipstick

          • Ray

            How childish. Typical braindead hunter.

          • Rydak

            Damm sure wish I could find the study that was done in one of our western states where polls were asleep at the wheel and allowed the antis to pass hunting free zones. Entire herds of wildlife starved to death because there were too many of them for the resources available. . The pictures of them all huddled together and dead were sickening. Guess they do that when they know the end is near. Best part was the silence from the anti-hunting community when the herds were found all over the area and resource managers were estimating how many years before the herds could make a come back, if at all. Bodies all over the place. The silence from the antis when they redacted the no-hunting zones was priceless. PETA and the other groups…..were unavailable for comment. So pathetic.

          • Ray

            Typical hunter rubbish remark.You just like to kill something. Any excuse and you will kill an animal that has done you no harm.

          • Ray

            It`s nature Rydak. Killing animals with guns is not nature. Mess about with nature, and it bites you back.

      • http://huntingholumstyle.wordpress.com Holum

        Ray I suggest you become educated in the reality of how species are protected and perpetuated in this world. Hunters are the leaders when it comes to conservation. In many places, such as Africa, if animals do not have a monetary value you can kiss them goodbye, that is the simple reality of it all. Your anthropomorphic projection on the issue is one of a child walking out of Disney movie. Putting the emotional a head of the logical.

        • Ray

          Hunters are murderers. They enjoy killing. I don`t need to be educated on how to preserve species. I save animals lives. I do not kill animals. So who is the idiot? The one who saves lives? or the one who kills for pleasure, because that is all it is.

          • http://huntingholumstyle.wordpress.com Holum

            So you claim you save animals lives by not killing them? Trolling on a hunting website with emotional anti-hunting sentiment, calling hunters murderers and idiots, is definitely not saving animals lives. Makes you Ray look like the uneducated idiot. Just so you know I am a veterinary student. I spend many hours a day learning what kills animals and how to save their lives. As a vet, I need to know about the ins and out of herd health and management and the responsibility humans have in that role, as the dominant power on this planet. Setting quotas for wildlife populations and responsible, legal hunting is the BEST way to manage these populations. Would you rather see a species go extinct, then to have it hunted?

          • Ray

            Well veterenarians aren`t exactly beyond criticism. Thousands of vets work in animal testing labs destroying animals. Lots of vets are hunters, and it comes under the silly title of `conservation`You can`t save a species by killing them. Just because you are a vet doesn`t mean that you can play God.

          • Zachx97

            You're are indeed an idiot.

            Petersen's, how do we block incoherent imbeciles from posting and badgering on this site? Ray obviously has an agenda as it's highly unlikely he would have stumbled across this page otherwise.

          • Ray

            Cliff. I am a vegetrarian. I have seen the videos of what goes in slaughterhouses all over the world. The steel bolt in the head does not happen everywhere. Animals are killed in slaughterhouses by any means that the slaughtermen feel like. You would all be horrified at some methods of slaughter. Err, no you wouldn`t, you are all too cruel.

          • Ray

            Zachx97. It`s a free world. I can comment where i like. You can`t stop me. Us incoherent imbeciles have to stick together, don`t we Zachx97.

          • Big Daddy Rich

            Zach, the guy is a troll and an idiot, but you don't want to block his posts. Just let the comments and replies tell the story. Even idiots have the right to speak their mind.

          • adam

            You're a idiot anything more than that is a waste of thought.

          • Ray

            So i am an idiot, who cares. At least i am an idiot that saves animals lives, not an idiot that kills them. Keep it up today chaps. I will be around to read your intelligent replies all day.

    • Al Siblock

      Hear Hear

      • Ray

        Pardon.

  • 060460

    The Associated Press needs to get their story confirmed before they print it. Most of the newspapers are in such a hurry to get the stories printed, that they do not always have the facts right.

  • Fritz

    All news papers are only interested in sensation . That is why they will publish any story ,that can be sensational ??

  • Ray

    It`s pointless me having any conversations with hunters. They enjoy slaughtering animals under the guise of `conservation` Nobody with one brain cell would fall for that excuse. It is pure bloodlust and the thrill of a kill. You all need to look at what you are doing. You are taking lives. They might just be animals to you but they have the right to live. Nobody gave you the right to kill anything. Someone sold you a licence, filled his pockets, went out and bought a crate of whisky, and couldn`t care less about the carnage taking place. It is all about money.

    • Ben Petrone

      Ray what did you have for supper or are you a veggie .When you bite into a veggie cant you hear it scream GET A LIFE .

      • Ray

        I have porridge for supper Ben. Yummy. Your supper screams when it gets it`s throat cut.

        • Rydak

          Very hard to scream when your throat is cut., but that fact is lost on you.

          • Ray

            Well you would know about cutting throats.

    • Paul

      All of these people that are so down on us hunters must all be vegetarians!!!!!!!!

      • Ray

        Correct Paul. I am a veggie. And i definitely dislike braindead hunters.

    • http://huntingholumstyle.wordpress.com Holum

      Ray, I think that you should admit that you never intended to have a conversation with hunters, and you are not going to take the time to read through this site and maybe go away having learned something. It is unfortunate for you.

    • ENC

      Ray, apparently you don't have any brain cells. I enjoy hunting as do many other people. Regardless of why hunters hunt, if we do not control the animal population, animals will continue to reproduce and eventually there will not be enough vegitation left to support the herd. So then, you animals dying of starvation. Hunting is big money to States and municipalities, which is a good thing. Do your homework before spouting off crap that makes you sound like a bigger idiot that you already are! If you don't like hunting, then don't hunt. Unless you're a vegatarian, you're a hypocrite. And if you are a vegatarian, my food (deer, cows, etc.) poop on your food. One more thing…I am an animal lover and support animal rescue groups, but I do hunt wild legal game animals as well and enjoy the time I spend with family and friends while doing it on my property that I purchased in the Lone Star State of Texas! And, I do eat the deer I kill. Quit making moronic blanket statements without considering ALL the FACTS!

      • Ray

        Hypocrite. You can not be an animal lover and then kill animals. You are deluding yourself into thinking what you are doing is right. You feel guilty because you kill animals, you just don`t know it because you aren`t bright enough to work it out.

        • Ray

          ENC. I have to laugh at your comment. It is typical drivel coming from a hunter. Hunting is all about greed for money and the lust to kill. It has nothing to do with habitat or conservation. Your weak claim that you support animal rescues while killing innocent animals show that you are indeed two faced. I would not trust you for one minute. Hunters have not evolved like the rest of the human race. You all live in the dark ages. You are all prehistoric.

  • Tom

    Ray, it must be tough to be so blind, I feel sorry for you.

    • Ray

      I wear glasses Tom. I can see fine. Don`t feel sorry for me. Feel sorry for yourself.

  • Cliff

    I have hunted in Africa extensively. All, and I mean all, meat harvested goes to the local people except what the hunters consume in camp., This includes leopard, which we don't normally eat, and is completely consumed. Anyway, that said, would be nice to ask all these anit-hunting do-gooders if they eat any type of meat! Anyone who has seen a defenseless cow with her head trapped shot in the forehead with a steel bolt would not think it a pleasant sight. Poor defenseless animal killed just to feed all these people with bloodlust. I rest my case.

  • Dr. Dale

    With three college degrees, one being a PHD in agriculture, I was raised on a farm, cattle ranch. We raised our own food, and only purchased sugar and coffee. My mother and I would butcher 200 chickens, canned their meat to eat later. My father and I, along with my two brothers and one sister would kill and eat 3 beef steers and 3 hogs a year, and put up 500 pounds of German smoked sausage. Plus, once a year, dad would hunt and kill a deer and we ate that too. Next, we killed an acre of sweet corn plants, killed another acre of potato plants, killed some carrots and onions off, and whatever else was in our big garden, we killed it and ate it! Plus, we fished the local lakes and caught and killed fish, and ate them. We did not buy this stuff in the grocery store. Where in the hell do you city people figure where all that food comes from, you eat? The government? Well, the US FEMA just purchased 420 million meals, a 7000 percent increase from last year, from farmers and ranchers so that you city people can eat, the meat and vegetables to stay alive. Me? I will be back on d farm eating my organic meat and vegetables, guarding them with my deer rifle, a new AK 47, so that I will survive when all that food runs out in the city and from the government. Meanwhile, you city folk will get hungry enough to even eat your own dog or pet cat just to stray alive. It's a matter of survival, and only the best hunters will survive the coming WW3. Now, who is the idiot here? Huh? Only the smartest will survive, as Darwin's theory is true for all species, including the best hunting lion, or beast, or human being. Better learn to hunt soon, as you will need those skills to survive the coming holocaust. If you do not want to believe, than starve, because I just do not give a damn anymore for idiots who call themselves environment mental cases or democrats. Nothing is free in life, including your food. Signing off, a well educated 4th generation farmer and rancher from ND. PS, we have 25 trillion dollars of oil and natural gas, under North Dakota soil. God loves us farmers and ranchers! ")

    • Ray

      I couldn`t care less about your degrees Dr Dale. So a degree means that you are allowed to do what you like. I don`t think so. Stop blowing your own trumpet. You are just a killer like all the rest on this thread. I didn`t have a university education. I went to a secondary school in the UK. I left without passing any exams. Go on muppets, have a laugh, say that it shows. But i don`t want to kill animals, so who is the best educated?Who is the idiot? Dr Dale has ww3 all planned out. Phew, three degrees and he is predicting the future.
      Next please.

      • Ray

        Now, now Doc. Act like you have three university degrees, or are you telling porkies? Yes, i think you are a liar. I have plenty to live on Doc, i will survive. Hunt me down if you want to, but i fight dirty. Hunters aren`t capable of taking on anything that can fight back. They are cowards with a huge yellow streak down their backs, and you are one of them.

        • Dr. Dale

          I do not think I am a coward, having served in the special forces, have two purple hearts, and have the Medal of Honor. No sir, I am not a liar, nor a coward. Be glad to show you my skills. I am a seasoned Veteran, and a seasoned hunter, well trained, by the US government. Been all over the world. I do not need to lie, when I myself know the truth and so does my military record show the TRUTH. Show some respect for our men in uniform, who even helped bail you Brits out of WW2, or have you forgotten?

          • Ray

            Stop blowing your stupid trumpet Dr Crippen. Who cares what you did, or what you do. Why do keep bringing war into a conversation about hunting.? You obviously enjoyed killing people as well as animals. That makes you a psycho. You are not brave.You are a weak gun mad killer.

    • Ray

      Will someone tell Dr Dale that if WW3 kicked off, nothing would survive. His beloved guns would be as much use as tits on a bull. In fact, he would be fried.

  • David Edge

    PETA kills over 90% of all animals taken in,so get off this web page bunny humpin Ray.It also galls me that so many so called hunters jumped on the bandwagon trashing the Trumps before all the facts were in ,in last nights postings.Divide & conquer ,it does not take much to divide us anymore.From what I saw posted last night,the hunters were just about as guilty as the liberal newspapers.Get the facts before jumping on the critic bandwagon.GOD bless & have mercy on us all.

    • Ray

      David Edge. Your God didn`t give any mercy to the animals. What makes you think that hunters are so special?

  • jerry

    You people give Ray to much credit, he doesn't exist in the real world.

    • Ray.

      Goodbye ladies. My final comments have been blocked because i told the truth about hunters. Hunters don`t like to be told what they realy are, so i can`t say what i think about you all, or it gets censored. Funny though, you can say what you like about me and nothing get`s blocked. That`s democracy for you. It doesn`t exist in a hunters mind. Tata, have a bad life.

  • Ray

    I do exist Jerry. I am a real live person. I`ve noticed i am not getting any back up from anyone. Don`t panic, i am used to it. This is what i do, and i enjoy taking on those that think that it is all right to kill an animal that hasn`t done them any harm, and that means everyone on here.

  • Ray

    I`m getting blocked from commenting now. See, hunters can`t take being hunted.

  • Ray

    One of my comments was blocked. It wasn`t obscene. Maybe freedom of speech only applies to hunters.

  • Ray

    If you can`t take criticism then there is no point in me being here. I can take criticism, but then i am a normal person, not a bloodthirsty animal killer. Somebody must be feeling a tad guilty, and it isn`t me.

  • http://huntingholumstyle.wordpress.com Holum

    Ray will you please explain to us how you save animals' lives? Do you believe you go through life without benefiting from products made from animals? Do some research.

    • Ray

      I don`t have to explain anything. You are the ones doing the killing. I am the one of the many doing the saving. I don`t need to do research. I know what you are all like.

  • Chris G.

    More Cheese please to go with the whine coming from Ray…. Get a clue Sir…….. There would be very little wildlife if there wasnt conservation groups say like SCI and dozens and dozens of others like it.. Think for a minute? How much money do you donate to wildlife groups, very little I would guess. Most the money you donate, if any goes to support a payroll to some anti-hunting group, who sadly in turn murders as you would call it 90% or more of the precious animals they intend supposedly save. How is the tea now sir………….

    • Ray

      Who`s the one doing the whining Chris G? And the sentence, there would be very little wildlife if it wasn`t for conservation groups, is pants. There would be a lot more wildlife if the dummies stopped killing it.

  • Ronald

    Why is everyone wasting time and effort bantering with Ray. He is entitled to his opinion. Place whatever weight in the same as you might. Not too dissimilar to that of a two year old – one sided, baseless and without any sense of reality. I must go now, my steak is nearly done on the grill.

    • Ray

      I thought for a second you were on my side Ronald. And then i realised i am on a hunting page. Enjoy your sreak. It will kill you in the end.

  • Jim

    Since Ray is such an avid anti-hunter I hope he a vegetarian as well. Just curious, why so many comments from a person who is anti-hunting on a hunting page? Don't hunt much anymore but when I did it wasn't for trophy's it went into pot and was eaten.

    • Ray

      I am a vegetarian Jim. I know this is a hunting page. This is the best place to criticize hunting. I have a hunting audience, and everyone of them has been acting like spoilt brats. Which incidentally is what the Trump brothers are.

  • Ray

    I just want to give you all an idea of what animal loving people do. It isn`t all about being anti hunting. It is every aspect of cruelty to animals. One thing that many animal lovers are involved in is the Massacre of stray dogs in Romania. I don`t think i will be able to put a link on here so, Google Romanian dogs. Have a look at all the stories about what happens to the dogs. If it doesn`t make you sick, then none of you are human.

  • Glenn

    What an interesting debate. Not sure much is being achieved, more sniping than anything else. It would be great if there was some more constructive debate. So if I may, a few topics introduced. This has nothing to do with weather you are a meat eater or not. I am a realist, and not an activist. I seek understanding and constructive debate, for this is what helps both sides. No one is obliged to respond, I am totally open to correction, but please be constructive, it actually might be productive and helpful to all.

    Here goes.

    I am not a hunter, I am a conservationist and wildlife photographer. I have hunted, but that is now well in my past. Conservation comes with many aspects, and one of then I do realise is the need to keep in check some animal populations, and this does sadly include the more iconic species, Leopards, Elephants etc. Habitats are squeezed more and more by human expansion, and this leaves less for animals. A brief observation would be to take elephants. Left to their own in limited habitat range, they will just about destroy the habitat, and in turn expose not only the habitat to further exposure from the elements, but other game, flora and fauna in it as well. So keeping their numbers in check is vital. True there are various solutions; one of them is actually hunting, add culls, and relocation possibly.

    My problem with hunting is not the hunting itself. It is some of the really indecent outfits out there that exploit the trust put in them when hunting licenses and quotas are issued. For me i have trouble, when reading stuff where game rangers start joining the Rhino slaughter, some operate canned hunts, other take out animals in their prime, still others operate beyond the licenses issued, I do hope that poaching weather commercial or subsistence would have been taken into account, as well as endangered animals, and their rate of decline etc.
    Add another aspect, putting animals through much more suffering than need be. For example, clients going on big game hunts (not only limited to big game though) should already have a certain level of competence, for this i mean they are able to execute a quick clean kill. Having to shoot an Elephant, numerous times, including shots to the spine to disable it are just not right. There should be in place empathy and respect, and an understanding that should the client not be able to execute a clean kill, within an agreed time, within a set number of shots (Say two for an elephant) then one of the guides should be allowed to step in and finish the job immediately. The client will have signed up to this and it should be focusing on the least amount of suffering. Anything more than 2 to 3 shots puts these hunts in the same category as a poacher with an AK47, it is mowing the target down. Funny but I am aware that true hunters have a deep respect for their quarry, and unnecessary suffering brings a lump to the throat, feelings of guilt and so on, and even “that went badly”. An absence of this means respect has been lost, it just pure murder then.

  • Glenn

    Cont….
    Transparency is another issue. I read somewhere on this site for example that there is a quota for 500 Leopards. Now these available Leopards are meant to come from the Old, sick or past the breeding prime, again read on this site, but not limited to this website. Question, are there really that many in this condition available. Given that Leopards need a certain amount of territory, 500 of these available Leopards represents a massive area, when you consider the remaining, prime breeders, young moving into their own territories, breeding mothers etc. I do own up and say i do not have access to the data, but logic is telling me something does seem to be wrong. When i add other large predators to the mix, this further puts questions in there for me. I also acknowledge that we may not be talking about one private reserve, but possibly a few covering different countries, certainly hope that one country or area is not being referred to as having 500 Leopard available.

    Respect for the creatures that are hunted should be transferred from the Ranch owners to their clients. Advice against things like waving a tail cut of the shot Elephant for the cameras is just not a good idea. Taking out trophy animals where it is almost clear that the very size of the creature has been the attraction is another thing that i feel needs to be addressed. For example, Crocodiles that are say close to 5 meters, should be left to see out their days, or possibly relocated if a menace. Creature like this are becoming a rarity, as with some Bull elephants. Sure there are challenges and situations which may not make this viable in all cases, but i see far to many photographs where indeed these "trophy" creatures are not about being brave, or enjoying a hunt, but more about bragging, mine is bigger than yours, especially when adding that a collection of these said photographs belong to one individual. This mentality is not right, and there are individuals who do practice this. I have friends who do just this, well I’m thankfully no longer in communication as they tend to be actually very unpleasant people with egos well above bearable for most. Arrogant, and ignorant, just after the next biggest trophy going. This mentality is not what should be associated with conservation surely.

    Lastly, the welfare of people employed. This needs to be address alongside the communities that surround privately owned ranches. Absolutely agreed is the massive contribution made by Private Game ranches to conservation, and should not be underestimated by anybody, until they have actually visited not one, but a few, in different locations to see the passion with which good Game ranches are run. However more often than not, there is a massive financial gap between employees, the communities and the organisations that benefit from hunting. Just benefiting from meat, or being rid of a menace animal is not what we should be hearing. Far more positive and meaningful contributions should be written into the granting of licenses. Sure some have built schools, etc., but I have observed that in some of these cases it is still not in proportion to the earning generated from ownership of the Ranches and licenses granted.

    That said and done, please feel free to point out errors, add corrections, and indeed contribute. It would be great to have healthy debate, as the issues being sniped about are not going away, and I believe that both sides for and against hunting could do themselves a service. We have read over the last twelve months or so some high profile people falling short of public opinion, possibly quite rightly, but the organisations behind hunting should be accountable. Shouldn’t they? Ultimately what should be at the center of not only this debate, but conservation, it is the Animals, flora and Fauna.

    • Ray

      Sorry, i do not agree with hunting, for whatever reason. It is all about money. The animals are merely lambs to the slaughter. They are killed to satisfy some idiots need to destroy something. That is how they get their rocks off.

  • Steve

    Ray, you say that you are a vegetarian. Why don't you try becoming a survivalist/vegetarian and I will drop you off out in the middle of nowhere with your choice of gear, but no food. You would be dead in three weeks. If it was not for the supermarket serving up your diet you would starve to death. How many medical complications have you had for lack of protein, lack of iron, lack of vitamins since you have been a veggy? I am not saying anything for or against hunting but I am living in reality of a healthy and sustainable diet.

    • Ray

      I am surviving Steve. Why would i want to be dropped off in the middle of nowhere. The scenario is never going to happen. My medical history has nowt to do with you. My diet is healthy and non meat. It is possible to live very well on a vegetarian or vegan diet.

  • Glenn

    @ Ray. How would you propose that in certain situations animal numbers are kept in check for the survival of a given Habitat?

    • Ray

      Why should animals be kept in check? They were there first. Hunters don`t care about habitats. They only want to kill.

      • Glenn

        Human activity has taken up the habitat a given species would normally had to roam. They will still breed, but with nowhere to spread out to will overgraze or destroy the habitat they are confined to. So inevitably, something will need to give. Either animal numbers, or the Habitat. One way to keep them in check, is unfortunately to Cull them, in some cases trans-location. Hunting is a form of culling, but with the idea that communities displaced, and in the interest of conservation of habitat is a way of generating income to maintain and conserve habitat. Unfortunately as much as i don't like the idea of hunting, or killing for the sake of it. This is in a lot of cases unavoidable if we are to practice conservation, and again conservation is unavoidable to.

        • Ray

          So humans are to blame? And the animals suffer. It is still all about money. It is greed, and probably a bit of corruption thrown in. There are also those people who like to destroy animals. They get great pleasure from it.

  • Glenn

    You are correct. Money does drive a lot of the problems we have today. Science is another factor. We are getting more successful at keeping ourselves alive, and this increases global population. Science has allowed us to advance technology, this in turn has spurned the aspirations of people to have what others have. So with the need to increase food, along with raw materials, and other needs, has reduced habitats.

    The reduction in habitats means conservation of what is left. Conservation means limited space for everything. Management of habitats takes money. Whether you cull things or hunt them. Hunting generates revenue at the same time providing stewards over the habitat. Sure there are people who enjoy hunting, and they won't be going anywhere. They are part of mankind, and have been since man had a need to eat meat. In a funny sort of way the need to draw on walls is still with us. We call it Graffiti. In the past it was much more than just graffiti.
    What some of the questions should be asking is to deal with corrupt and unethical hunting practices. They damage a lot of good work. People have a right not to like killing, but understanding that as distasteful as this may be for some, it may be the only solution in some cases. How we go about this more to do with the welfare of the animal. The next best thing to the need to practice conservation.

    • Ray

      Thanks for your honest comments Glenn. You are obviously a cut above many of the hunters on this page. Some of them need to learn how to respect everything in life, instead of feeding their need to kill to make them feel big.

  • Larry Chesney

    Hey folks, quit giving Ray, the miscreant, the satisfaction of arguing with him. Remember; Never argue with a idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  • Ray

    Nice one Larry. You obviously understand idiots. Have you been one for long?

  • Ray

    Well i have hunted you all down, and beat you. Everybody has gone. Typical hunters. Typical cowards. Come on brave hunters, get yourselves commenting on here. You post snide, dumb remarks and then flee. You are all the same. When someone stands up to you and you haven`t got your guns, you are like frightened rabbits.

  • Ray

    So you believe the story you want to believe? You believe a statement from a corrupt country is the truth. Dummy.

  • Leroy

    C mon ray us hunters dont go to animal activist websites and post their hate views against the opinions of the members of the site. Ya its a free world and all but just come in to stir up troubl

    • Ray

      Hunters do go onto animal rescue sites and spout off about how many animals they have killed. Hunters are not angels. Animal rescuers are the angels. I haven`t come on here to gloat. I`ve come on here to protest about hunters slaughtering innocent animals.

  • Leroy

    Ok fine comment all u like its not worth debating if it isnt going to make a difference. U can carry on hatin but im going hunting.

    • Ray

      I know you are Larry. You like to kill something that can`t fight back. You are a coward. There is no other way to describe you.

      • Ray

        Larry, oops, i mean Leroy.

  • Ray

    Whoever is overseeing this thread, can you leave all the comments on. You are removing the aggresive comments coming form your own hunting pals, or do you not want the world to see what they are really like. I can take all the flak they throw at me. It doesn`t make any difference to me what they say.

  • Ray
  • Nimrod

    real good idea. give RAY few hundred cats,few hundred hogs, thousand dogs, millions of birds and see how long before something or someone is dead from starvation. don't even think grass would make it , but he would have a lot of fertilizer

    • Ray

      Talk sense. Grow up. Get a life.

  • alex

    first time reader of this post but , just a question why waste your time talking to this guy ray .
    you know he does not have a job and probably lives in his mom basement and probably very few friends ,
    it does not matter what the argument is he is just angry at the world so everyones opinions are always wrong.
    if l see his name again l will stop reading, is a waste of time to talk to people like him.

    • Ray

      As usual Alex, you and your hunting buddies have got everything wrong. I`ll not tell you my living arrangements, but you would be insanely jealous if you knew them. You have seen my name again Alex, so stick to your word and push off.

      • Dirk Diggler

        Why does anyone engage this moron?

  • Ray

    You have to watch this. This is the revenge of the Deer.. .http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XjBVg0oNgVk
    …………………….

  • Taro

    Wow Ray, I’ve never seen so much internal conflict in a person before. You have this moral superiority complex and disdain for the very creature you are, a predator. Isn’t this out lashing at hunters really an internal conflict you have with yourself? Somehow you’ve been brainwashed to think humans are herbivores. I’m not going to point out the obvious canine teeth and eyes set forward characteristic, oops I just did. I love a good salad and veggie dish as much as the next guy but I also enjoy meat, why? because I can. Oh I guess that would make me a omnivore. But to reject meat into your diet because of moral issues is… Well, that’s just foolishness! I can understand if a person can’t have meat due to a chemical imbalance (mental or otherwise) and I do know people who are sensitive to the hormones, antibiotics and other things they put into beef, but then most of them are asking me to help provide them with organic protein(usually elk or deer). I don’t plan on changing your way of thinking because it obvious you are passionate about your point of view. But to lash out the way you do only show me that you are a fighter… like a natural carnivore. Yes I know deer, elk and other herbivores fight but that is usually only during the rut(that’s the breeding season, just in case you didn’t know) Wait a second, is this about women for you? Hmm that might explain a lot. In that case do what most guys do, get layed! But back to your fighting instinct, down deep I see the carnivore inside you just wanting to come out! It seems to me that you must think hunters are evil, I know in most cultures we are taught to fight evil with good and we should reject evil side of ourslves. But in reality, we are all BOTH so to reject the side that is capable of killing and providing substance on the table because you think its evil is only allowing you to know one side of yourself and that other side you are trying to suppress will come out screaming. Try and find some inner peace and maybe you will find you happy place.

  • Ray

    What a load of rubbish. Typical hunter trash. I don`t eat meat because i care about animals.I will never eat meat, i don`t need to. Hunters don`t care about animals. They only care about killing them. Hunters do not care about habitat or conservation, it`s a feeble excuse to carry on killing. Why are you looking for reasons why i don`t eat meat. Can you not get it into your small hunting brain that not everyone is an animal killer. I have inner peace thank you very much, i am very content, apart from reading about all the animal cruelty that goes on around the world. I have disdain for every person who is cruel to animals, no matter what their reason is.

    • Rydak

      Yet the fact still remains that the people who give the most, financially and have the most effect on preserving animals in their natural habitat ……are hunters! No PETA or other animal rights group even comes close to the halfway mark of the amount of money given to preserve animals as that given by hunters. And no effort undertaken by anti-hunters has even come close to those provided by hunters in actually having a real and meaningful effect on animal preservation. This is the one point that PETA and other antis wont talk about in the public, because, despite their beliefs, they know it is factually true, and it pisses them off bad. Now goofballs like Ray can come onto forum and say whatever they wish, because we can not make him prove or disprove anything. But no anti-hunting organization exists that has been able to challenge this fact…..and none will, because they know what the acts are. They just don't like them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/thraenert Bill Thraenert

    The day when people like ray actually come up with some decent hard facts is still years off apparently. I donate every year to expand habitat for game animals. If ray did he would have flaunted that several times by now. The kid cant get it through his head that the people he so avidly hates are the ones saving his precious friends. Who by the sounds of it are the only ones who can tolerate him. Good luck with the veggie burger and tofu and for the love of god i hope u dont drink milk. thousands of defenseless cows were almost harmed in the making of it. wow. what an uninlightened ignorant little kid

    • Ray.

      Bill. I wish i was a kid. Then i would have years left to fight the good fight. No, i don`t drink milk, and i don`t eat corpses. Nothing that poos passes my lips. Take that anyway you want. So you save my friends by killing them? What a load of c***.

  • Joe

    Ray must not have a real life, been posting on this same subject for how long now? And you just keep repeating the same crap over and over. Not all hunters hunt because they love to kill, I feel bad when an animal suffers. But I hunt because animals are FOOD! That's why they exist!

    • Joe

      And by the way, I work for Fish&Wildlife Services. Don't try to tell me about conservation! Does the UK even have anything left worthwhile to conserve? I think you guys have more cats, dogs, and goldfish than anything actually worth conserving!

    • Ray

      Rydak. All the comments from you hunters are the same. You call it conservation. I call it slaughter of innocent animals. You call it it saving animals lives. I call it the desire to watch an animal die in agony, and don`t tell me it`s a clean kill, there is no such thing. Get a life. All you want to do is to kill something weaker than yourself. That`s the way you all get your kicks. You are all weak cowards with the brain capacity of a flea.

    • Ray

      Boring, boring, boring. Typical hunter mentality. Kill, kill, kill. If it`s weaker than a hunter, kill it.

    • Ray

      Well if you feel bad Joe, go to the supermarket. No you don`t feel bad, you enjoy killing innocent animals. You are a coward.

    • Ray.

      It`s time for me to go ladies. I have more important things to do than waste my time on cowardly hunters. Without your guns, you are nobody. You need to feel strong, so you carry weapons. That proves you are all weak cowards. Tata again. Have a bad life.

  • Taro

    Ray! Wow, such anger! Maybe there are some pesticides in your veggies, you should probably check into that. Oh wait, I’m sure you buy organic. Now all this makes sense! You say you have disdain for people who are “cruel to”(hunt) animals… How about people who pay others to do that “cruelty” in order for them to live their life style(i.e. Vegans)? You see organic farmers need to make a living too. Let me explain, organic farms aren’t allowed to use certain pesticides and repellents that non-organic farms use. The repellents they do use aren’t too effective (i.e. Plantskydd), most put up expensive fence, if they can afford them, Air cannons to scare off birds, and other devises to deter rodents and deer. But still these farmers have a high percentage of crop loss due to animals foraging, therefore they need to charge more for their produce. Which I am sure you are aware of. A lot of these farmer turn to hunters and/or hunt themselves as a devise to help protect their crops. I’ve personally have hunted on many these organic farms and have always been welcome back with open arms because they view us(hunters) as helpers to protect they’re crops which ultimately becomes your food. I see this internal conflict that you must have knowing that your moral superior life style causes more animals being harvested in the name of organic produce than I can ever hunt in my life time! I should actually thank you for your life style(Vegan) because it has open up more opportunities for me to hunt that I would not have otherwise. I don’t want to change you, and I don’t want you to eat meat, because I know you think its “morally wrong”. I want you to keep living your blissfully naive life because it has open up doors to area I can now hunt and more in the future. So Ray, thank you.

    • Ray

      Hunters are weak mummy`s boys. A hunter will not take anything on that will fight back. You are all just baby boy cowards.

    • Ray.

      Who`s angry Taro? I pity all of you. You are all playing at being heroes when really you are all born cowards. Must go now and get some work done to save animals from the evil people of the world. Bye bye, have an awful life.

      • Ray.

        Taro, you do talk a load of bullshit.

        • Ray.

          I am being blocked. It seems the hunters do not like being hunted. What a pity, `cos i was enjoying having a go at you all. Notice that all of you are ganging up on one person, just like you do when you are hunting, because you are all weak. You couldn`t exist on your own without a gun to back you up.

          • Taro

            To the moderator: Please don't block this guy, I was just starting to have fun!

  • Ray.

    BYE BYE everybody.

  • Taro

    Oh Don’t go Ray, I’m just trying to help you see that your outward lashes to hunters are really a cry for help. I know its hard to be told that your lifestyle is a hypocrisy but you need to look within yourself to find peace… I hope you find your happy place!

  • Ray.

    Sorry Taro, I know you want me to stay because you have such a boring life, but i have to go and find other obnoxious hunters to have pleasant words with. You can chat with your hunting buddies about all the innocent animals you have slaughtered to make you feel good., and it does make you feel big to gloat. I don`t need help Taro. I`m doing the right things, you are doing the killing.

  • Taro

    RAY! You’re back! I knew you wouldn’t do what you say you would! I knew you couldn’t stay away! Sorry it took so long for me to reply, but I went fishing this morning and then had a friends Easter Dinner BBQ to attend, yup I have a life outside of these blogs! I can tell by the tone of the last message you are feeling less angry, that’s good! We’re making progress! Obviously I’ve given you a lot to think about and you need time to process it all. How your live style choice conflicting with moral issues, realizing that a vegan life style does kill animals indirectly, questioning what is the “right” path for your life, by the way, do you think its right letting other do the killing for you so you can feel good about living your “I do no harm to animals” life style? Even thou you benefit directly from the “slaughter” of thousands of ducks to preserve the very crops you eat? Or the hundreds of geese that are shot near and around airports so you can travel safely to your anticruelty to animals rallies? Are you wearing a leather belt or shoes? That one would be too easy! How about the computer you’re on? You really don’t think that computer was made without “harming” some wildlife habitat do you? Ray I’m so glad you’re back, we have so much to discuss!

  • Taro

    Ray! You’re back! I knew you wouldn’t do what you said you would! I knew you couldn’t stay away! Its that “say one thing, do another” attitude that comes from that hypocritical, false morally superior, lifestyle! I actually wrote you earlier but the administrator cut me off! Looks like you’re getting me in trouble.

  • Dr. Dale

    When Petersen magazines edit Ray's comments or even mine, I will not tolerate it. I have subscribed to your magazine for over 35 years. Served in the US military for 33 years, and will be retiring in 7 months. I fought for the protection of our 1st amendment rights. Yet, you edit them. You do not deserve my money for this magazine, nor my blood to protect first amendment rights. I am out of here, for good.

  • justin

    quit your crying and dont talk down on petersen magazines they do alot more than they get justice for, i dont think your 10$ a month is going to hurt them any.

  • Ray

    Maybe one day. Who knows, it may be the hunters turn to have their arses on a plate………………………………………… .https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002409220866#!/photo.php?fbid=302062743195111&set=a.216201598447893.48092.152547194813334&type=1&theater

  • John Rhodes

    By what right do these two idiots with too much money and too much free time have to conduct a senseless slaughter of an innocent and beautiful creature . It sure doesn't take very much skill to point a gun at an elephant and kill it . You can't miss , as for the leopard it was a youngster .it wasn't given the chance to live long enough to learn skills which would have kept it away from these plonkers.
    I wonder how brave the trump boys would be if they decided to hunt something that could shoot back . If they are so keen on killing let them join the military and do some time in Afghanistan along with the brave military families who's lives are in danger everyday . Want to give it a try Donald jnr and Eric ?.. No I didn't think so ! Not so brave when your life is at risk

  • John

    Don't get me wrong I'm not against hunting overall, but killing elephants and leopards is totally wrong I was born and raised in Zimbabwe and lived with the wildlife . But I do have serious reservations with moneyed people using it to enable them to go on a joyride and kill creatures that are, or very soon will be on the endangered species list
    Since independence in 1984 Zimbabwe's wildlife has been decimated by poachers, and it can Ill afford the loss of another 500 leopards a year . When I was growing up the bush was teeming with wildlife , not the case today Sensless killing like this really angers me . To all the hunters out there, if the animals could shoot back I wonder how many of you would continue to hunt . To those that would, then I respect you, but until you make it an even contest ,hunting is nothing more than a systematic slaughter of animals that can't retaliate. Kill for food by all means but the Trumps have never been hungry a day in their lives . I'll bet that they didn't even leave the vehicles in order to kill their prey Okay I'm ready for the retorts

  • Ray

    At last. The last two comments sum up what is wrong with hunters and their so called conservation of the habitat of animals. Hunters are responsible for destroying habitats. They just enjoy the killing, they couldn`t care less about animals, conservation, habitats, people, etc. They just have the senseless urge to kill anything they come into contact with because they are weak cowards.

  • Taro

    RAY! You’re back again! I knew you were lurking in the shadows, just like the carnivore you are! I told you there is a hunter within you! Obviously I’ve given you a lot to think about and you needed time to process it all. Your vegan lifestyle does kill animals indirectly and it must be such a moral conflict within your little hypocritical mind! Keep on tell yourself “I don’t kill animals, so I am right” even though you benefit directly from the “slaughter” of thousands of ducks to preserve the very crops you eat. Or the hundreds of geese that are shot near and around airports, so you can travel safely to your anticruelty to animals rallies. Are you wearing a leather belt or shoes? That one would be too easy! How about the computer you’re on? You really don’t think that computer was made without “harming” some wildlife and its habitat? Do you? No you don’t kill anything, you allow others to kill for you so you can continue to have that smug morally superior attitude that wouldn’t exist without the “actions” of others. Do you know where your food comes from? And how it got there? How about everything else you possess in your little world? Look at who you really are.

    • Ray

      Keep trying Taro. You might eventually get something right. You don`t give me a lot to think about because you talk drivel.

  • Taro

    Ben, I'm so disappointed in you!

    • Taro

      Ben, Thank You.

  • Taro

    Ray – What with you giving yourself positive thumbs up and everyone else a negative thumbs down is this a narcissistic egotistical personality disorder?
    I'll give you some time to answer, I know you'll need to look up those 'big" words.

    • Ray

      There is an army of animal lovers who look at these hunting pages. Didn`t you know? No, you haven`t got the intelligence to work it out. You are too busy thinking about your next murdering spree. Dumbo.

      • Taro

        Yea, I’m sure its the “army of animal lovers” and not you. And “Dumbo” is that the best you could do? From an Englishman I would have expected a more intelligent response and better command of the English language. I gave you credit for being a high school drop out but I don’t think you even passed grade school.
        Oh by the way, notice I’ve been keeping my responses shorter and I’ve stopped using BIG words so your feeble mind can process the retort.

        • Ray

          I wasn`t educated Taro. I know right from wrong though, and that is the main thing. So you were well educated, yes? Then how come you don`t know it is wrong to kill a defenceless animal. You do it because you feel inferior, and you have to prove that you are a big man. Big deal, weak Taro has to kill, to prove he is superior. Dumbo.

          • Taro

            Ray – All this time I was giving you credit for being a grown-up but I realize now I’ve been having a discussion with a child(At least the mental age of a child)! Do you still live with your parents? Does mommy still do your laundry? I bet you don’t even have a job! Do your parents still give you an allowance? I bet you’re going to call me “Dumbo” again. Probably the only comeback your juvenile mind can come up with.

          • Taro

            Go ahead, give me a thumbs down, and then give yourself a thumbs up, and try and convience me that its NOT YOU but the “army” of animal activists that are doing it!

          • Ray

            All your silly childish taunts have no effect Taro. I can take any amount of insults, and i can dish them out. You don`t matter to me. What you do to defenceless animals matters to me. You are just one of the lowlife that takes out their frustrations on animals. You are a nothing, you are weak and cowardly. Without your weapons you are a sub normal weakling. You are a loser, you are a prehistoric throwback that never evolved like the rest of humanity, you live in the dark ages. You, are worthless.

          • Taro

            Ray – What is with this tantrum? Is your face getting all red? You should really try and control your outburst, very childish and immature. But I guess that is all your mental capacity can handle. I’m sorry it took a day for me to get back to you but I was busy at work, you know that thing that you don’t have, a job! You see some of us work for a living, we don’t get an allowance from our parents and have mom cook our meals. I bet you yell at your sweet mom when she doesn’t cook your veggies just right. Ingrate! Your comments are the equivalent of a 3rd grades school yard taunt, you know the one, “I’m rubber you’re glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and stick to you.” I bet you said those exact word to someone this past week! I bet even your “army” of animal activists don’t even like talking you!

          • Taro

            ALSO, Your comment: “you are a prehistoric throwback that never evolved like the rest of humanity, you live in the dark ages.”
            So what is it? Am I “prehistoric” man, or a man from the “dark ages”? Because if I’m a prehistoric man that now lives in the dark ages, I’ve evolved quite a bit! But what I think you were trying to say is I’m prehistoric therefore I live in the “ice age”.
            You see if you stayed in school you would know these things!

          • Ray

            Why are you so angry Taro? Did my reply hit a nerve?

  • Taro

    Very good Ray, I see you’re controlling your outburst and using that whole “I’m rubber, your glue” argument. I’m glad I give our life some measure of meaning.

  • Ray

    Have you not got any hunting friends that could come on here Taro? You are very boring. You never get anything right. Your idea of what an animal activist looks like, and does, is hysterical. I need someone with a few brain cells, just like me, to have a ruck with, not a complete Dumbo like yourself. I want to talk about hunting, and why all hunters are dumb in the head, not someone who just guesses about everything, like you do. And what has rubber and glue got to do with hunting, unless you have a fetish.

  • Taro

    Ray, you’re right… you do have a few brain cells… 3, maybe 4!
    Like they say, “A mind is a terrible thing to waste”, and you are proof of that! You should have stayed in school.

  • Ray.

    I have just read an email that has been sent to me. A horse has been shot in North Carolina with a high powered rifle. The horse was a family pet and it was killed because it was an easy target for someone. Hunting is not allowed in that area. If guns and rifles are on sale in everywhere in the US, then it stands to reason that more morons are going to buy them and cause carnage because they need to kill something to prove how tough they are. Real men, and women, don`t need weapons to prove how strong they are. Guns are only for weaklings, and killers, and the braindead. Does that ring a bell with you Taro?

    • Ray.

      All those negatives. That means that hunters don`t give a damn about a pet horse being killed for someones pleasure. It just goes to show the mentality of hunters. Braindead, uncaring, inbred killers.

      • Taro

        Ray – You are an idiot. I would call you mentally challenged but that would give you too much credit.

        • Ray.

          Taro, come up with something original. You say the same inane things again and again. You are really, really boring.

        • Ray.

          It seems that you are losing interest Taro. I thought you were enjoying having `fun` with me. I have hunted you down and you don`t like it. Typical hunter, bottle out when it gets tough for you. One day someone with a gun will confront you Taro, and you will be crapping yourself. Remember these words: One .. day.. someone .. with ..a .. gun.. will.. confront.. you.

  • Taro

    Ray – I told you there is a predator inside you! That little hunter inside or you just bursting to come out! I knew it just needed a little encouragement! Feels good doesn’t it!
    BTW – I’ve already been in armed confrontations and I’m still here.

  • Ray.

    I`m not the kind of predator that you think i am. You haven`t got anything right. I hunt down those that are cruel to animals, and i take them on, one on one. Hunters aren`t used to that. Hunters like to have an advantage because they are weak. I`m not weak. One day your luck will run out when you come across someone with a gun. It is odds on. Of course i will not know about it, but i take pleasure in knowing that it will happen.

  • Taro

    Ray – you are that “kind” of predator! Not the roaring lion type, more like an elephant shrew! You know, squeaky!

  • Ray.

    We have an emergency in Romania Taro. I don`t suppose you would like to donate a few Dollars to save an animal sanctuary from being evicted because the villagers don`t like cats and dogs in their village. We have to raise funds to move the animals or the local thugs will kill them all. What on earth i am asking you for? You`re an animal killing thug as well. The real people will help the animals, we don`t need your type.

  • Taro

    Oh Ray, do you even have a pet? Or does your mom have to put a steak around your neck so the dog or cat would actually play with you? I have opened up my home and wallet to more displaced dogs, cats and horses then you’ll ever know. I have fostered and adopted displaced pets from all over the world. Last year I adopted a 13 year old dog that was unwanted, neglected and malnourished from his previous owner, he still lives with me today and just turned 14. He maybe old, but he is health and happy. So Ray, what have you done lately? Aside from verbally attacking the very people who do more in a week to help animals than you could possible do in a life time! If you really care about cats and dogs, I hope you don’t support PETA?!
    Of course your retort will be something like “hunters lie, all they want to do is kill, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla”. Please! I challenge you to come up with an intelligent and original response(you know, something you already haven’t said before). I know its a lot to ask of you and its hurts your head to think so hard, but I know you can do it!

  • Ray.

    You are kidding yourself. You look after animals because you feel guilty about killing other animals. You are trying to justify killing innocent animals by caring for the unfortunate ones. It`s a typical reaction from confused, uneducated people. I see it all the time.

  • Taro

    Nice try Ray. Now who’s talking “drivel”? You don’t even have a pet, do you! I bet you don’t even really care about animals? Its the confrontation you enjoy.

  • Ray.

    I have pets. I have always had pets. I have never had the urge to kill an animal. That`s why i am better than you. I confront everyone who harms animals. Animals can not speak for themselves. It takes an evil coward to kill an animal that can not cry for help. You are one of those people.

  • Taro

    “That`s why i am better than you” ?! … Ray … your egotistical grandeur sounds more like an inferiority complex and lack of self esteem. I was going to add something about how you could really help animals by improving their environment but then I realized it’ll fall onto deaf ears, cause I realize you couldn’t care less about the animals welfare. Its only all about the fight for you. By the way, pet rocks don’t count.

  • Ray.

    I will always be better than you. You are the one with an inferiority complex. That`s why you kill animals. It makes a weak person like you feel superior. I get a buzz out of saving animals lives. I don`t slaughter innocent animals that can`t fight back. That`s why i am better, than a weakling like you.

  • Ray.

    Come on Taro. Get yourself on here. I haven`t finished with you yet. I need to know more about the workings of an animal slaughterers evil mind.

  • Taro

    Awww Ray, You missed me! I’m so touched, you see I give your life purpose! Sorry mate, but I was away this weekend fishing and hiking. You should really try and get out some and enjoy the outdoors!
    Wow, such anger, such drive! It must really piss you off knowing ALL your energy and efforts has ZERO effect on anyone regarding the hunting of animals! But I appreciate you for what you are … ENTERTAINMENT! You know, like the daily crossword puzzle in the newspapers, but the crossword puzzle is WAY more challenging! More importantly all your efforts do absolutely no good for the animal you claim you care about. Me on the other hand, just by the sole fact of purchasing a hunting and fishing licence, I put money into the hands of biologist and environmentalist to help the improve the natural habitat for all animals, the money also goes to help maintain trails and parks for those who do not hunt but also want enjoy the outdoors. Been on a hike lately? You see, I fund your outdoor experience!

  • Ray.

    You`ve had a few days to come up with something intelligent, but it`s the same old dreary hunter mentality rubbish, Yawn, yawn.

  • Taro

    But those are the facts and you know it. You make me laugh Ray, you are so predictable, whenever you don’t like what you hear, you call it “rubbish”, when you can’t deal with the real facts, you say its a “lie” and when you can’t come up with a intelligent retort, you claim you’re “bored”. You remember Baghdad Bob, Well I’m going to start calling you Ridicules Ray.

  • Ray.

    You need to look around for a new life Taro. You are very boring. That`s why you haven`t got any friends. You can call me what you like. As i have said before. It has no effect.

  • Ray.

    Ridicules Ray sounds stupid. Ridiculous Ray would make more sense.

  • Taro

    Ridiculous Ray … Yup, that works!

    BTW, I went on a prairie dog shoot the other day, must have shot a couple hundred of those little critters. When I left the field because I ran out of ammunition, the farmer stopped to talk to me and then gave me a couple boxes of ammo so I could shoot some more. You got to love those organic farmers!

  • Ray.

    That`s the sort of attitude i expect from an uneducated killer. You are no surprise to me at all. What you do is normal for a retard. You would surprise me if you decided not to kill defencelles animals for a week. But there is more chance of you becoming the first female President of the USA.

  • Taro

    Ridiculous Ray – Predictable again as usual. That’s the same old anti-hunting rhetoric you’ve been spewing forever, blah, blah, boring, boring … sound familiar? … wink, wink!
    Its sad to see that the only way you can make yourself feel better is by trying to push down others that you can’t beat. You elect to call them names(not even very creative names at that), claiming yourself to be “better” then others(a clear sign of an egotistical maniac) and fail to come up with viable arguments to back your statements(if you stayed in school you could have attended a Debate League, that might have helped). So do your parents a favor and get out of their house, find a job, finish school and try and better yourself, and maybe you can gain some short measure of respect in society.

  • Ray.

    Is it right that hunters only have small dicks? Of course i wouldn`t expect you to tell the truth and confrm it. That`s why hunters have to kill innocent harmless animals. It is to boost their lack of self esteem and failure in the trouser department.

  • Taro

    Ridiculous Ray – I must have struck a nerve. Your rebuttal is hilarious and reeks of dismay, you are now LITERALLY swing for below the belt. I haven’t heard a comeback like that since grade school. It must be tough for you to face your short comings and failures, but they say that is the path to improvement. Good Luck.

  • Ray.

    It`s just as well i put you right about Ridiculous Ray, otherwise you would have been calling me a ridculous name. I`m pleased to be able to help you to make decisions.

  • Taro

    Ridiculous Ray – The fight in you seems to lacking luster, probably because I’ve given you much to think about in your own life and now you see the error in your ways. Inner peace is the road to enlightenment. Enjoy your week off.

  • Ray.

    You couldn`t spell ridiculous could you? I had to put you right. Are you having a week off? I`m not. I will be here every day to keep you entertained.

  • Ray.

    Ooooooops, i nearly forgot about you today. How could i forget about my daily dose of boredom.?

  • Ray.

    Sorry, small dick. I can`t wait around for you to make your boring comments. I have better things to do than waste my time on a braindead hunter. Mr Moderator, don`t delete my comments. They aren`t abusive, they are the truth.

  • Ray.

    It looks like Taro has given up the fight, or he has shot himself in the nuts. Hunters haven`t got the bottle for a long battle. You just like a quick result. You inbred cave dwellers just kill for pleasure, it has nothing at all to do with conservation. I know i have said that before, but i have to keep explaining to you all because you are very slow to pick things up. The last man standing is an anti hunter, and it will always be that way, because we are superior. Even without a weapon, we are a thousand times better than a hunter. Adios amigos. May you all blow your brains out. That should be easy. Stick your gun where the sun doesn`t shine, and pull the trigger. Wow! It looks like this kids magazine has decided not to accept my comments. I have beaten them also. Twice a winner.

  • Ray

    I thought i would have a look in here today and see if any sheep shaggers turned up. It looks like all the hunters have gone away, yahooooooo. It doesn`t take much to frighten animal killers. I just needed to keep the pressure on and they buckled. Talking to an animal killer is like talking to descendants of a dinosaur. Small brain, small willy, no hoper, doomed to be wiped out.

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